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Subject: Punk Rock History
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Author: McCreature
Subject: Punk Rock History
Date: 03/03/13 1:54 pm

I am working on a project to illustrate the history of punk in a timeline. My current list of bands to include:

The Sonics
The Velvet Underground
MC5
The Stooges
New York Dolls
Patti Smith
Ramones
Talking Heads
Sex Pistols
Black Flag
Buzzcocks
The Clash
Joy Division
Richard Hell and the Voidoids
Bad Brains
Misfits
D.O.A.
Dead Kennedys
Descendants
Social Distortion
Bad Religion
Agnostic Front
The Exploited
Minor Threat
The Vandals
NOFX
The Offspring
No Doubt
Screeching Weasel
Fugazi
Green Day
Nirvana
Pennywise
Sublime
Bikini Kill
The Casualties
A.F.I.
Rage Against the Machine
Rancid
Refused
Blink 182
Millencolin
Anti-Flag
At the Drive-in
Gob
The Hives
The Unseen
Sleater Kinney
Dropkick Murphys
Flogging Molly
Thrice
Rise Against
Alexisonfire
The Used
The Gaslight Anthem

Please let me know if I've overlooked a band. Your input would be greatly appreciated!
_________________
I wish I was an astronaut

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Author: se7en
Subject:
Date: 03/13/13 2:44 am

dont mean to sound like an ass but how can you have Joy Division without noting New Order and more importantly The Smiths?

How can you list Rise Against but not 88 Fingers Louie?

Crass?

If you're going to include 3rd wave ska why not Toots, The Specials? (i.e roots ska? I would leave Ska out) Otherwise go with "punk ska" like Slapstick, Link 80 etc.

Instead of Screeching Weasel I would just say Ben Weasel as he was part of more bands than simply SW and had more impact scene wise.

Leatherface?

As for the 90s, the influence of Husker Du, The Lemonheads, Deep Wound -> fIrehose -> Dinosaur Jr, Soundgarden, the replacements = more important to the commercialization and creation of alternative, pop-punk, grunge then the more popular bands listed...

7 Seconds, Minutemen, Gang Green, Runaways, all way more important than including gay bashers Bad Brains.. would replace Bad Brains with Beastie Boys in a minute.

Rancid but no Operation Ivy? No Crimpshrine? No G.I? Seems like a Punk-O-Rama / MTV list

/end slightly offensive but not meant to be rant.

my logical order would be a lot different anyways.. after New York Dolls it goes kinda way off in my opinion and includes a lot of out of order names, if your going to branch off into family tree's like Nirvana you're better off with Soundgarden who were at least on SST

Also, The Damned should be mentioned before The Sex Pistols as they had the first charting punk release in the UK beating the Pistols by a week I believe?

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Author: McCreature
Subject:
Date: 03/16/13 1:30 pm

Thanks for the suggestions! I will definitely add these bands to my list.

New Order
The Smiths
Crass
Dinosaur Jr
Soundgarden
Operation Ivy
The Damned
Beastie Boys


If I have time and space in the project I'd like to add these suggested bands too:

Leather Face
Husker Du
The Lemonheads
Deep Wound
fIrehose
the replacements
88 Fingers Louie
Toots
The Specials
Slapstick
Link 80
7 Seconds
Minutemen
Gang Green
Runaways
Crimpshrine
G.I

I do have to draw a line somewhere trying to limit the bands that are on the list and preferential treatment has been given to popular bands even if they weren't particularly influential but were notable punk bands only because they are household names.

No matter what its going to be a subjective timeline and no one will agree with me, but the more opinions I get will hopefully balance it out a bit.

The order of the list was purely based on the bands formation date.

It's definitely easier to find the definitive bands of the protopunk years than the more recent stuff.
_________________
I wish I was an astronaut

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Author: se7en
Subject:
Date: 03/23/13 8:22 am

My only comment is I would really look into adding Husker Du, if you do some minor reading on them they were the first punk band to sign to a major label (leaving sst for warner). Even Nirvana stated that they intended to sound as much like them as possible, not to mention that they were one of the first hardcore bands and had gay members and a sorted history. Their influence on the development of alternative is perhaps bigger than any other band.

Just a suggestion though, Although I hate Bob Mould, Grant Harts songs were all 1000% better than his crap.

The Minutemen are pretty interesting

Food for thought.

I get were you're coming from, perhaps if you're not familiar with either band you might find it worth looking into.... specifically Husker Du

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Author: estee.tabernac
Subject:
Date: 03/27/13 11:17 pm

se7en wrote:
would replace Bad Brains with Beastie Boys in a minute.


W/O bad brains, there would be no Beasties. and I would argue the Beasties have had a greater impact/ importance in the realm of Hip Hop/ Rap than Punk.

further to which, a more mature Bad Brains have apologized for their youthful approach to homosexuality. jah love. PMA.
_________________
smash your head on the punk rock

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Author: se7en
Subject:
Date: 04/04/13 3:18 am

I dunno, a lot of the "rasta" groups have "dismissed" their early hatred of homosexuals and lyrical content but most of the time its been a PR stunt. I dunno.

I totally forgot, The Germs and Reagan Youth, two huge bands considering 1) Darby Crash's impact on hardcore and 2) Rubinstein's unfortunate death and demise and well, their tenure as a band during the Reagan administration which was the main lyrical content to a lot of anarcho-punk of the era.

But yea, I understand why this guys list doesn't want to get sorted all out of whack by the music nerds in us.

"W/O bad brains, there would be no Beasties. and I would argue the Beasties have had a greater impact/ importance in the realm of Hip Hop/ Rap than Punk. "

The Beastie Boys shared the stage with Reagan Youth, Bad Brains etc at CBGBs regularly but also closed out Max's K.C. Which was a more Hardcore club than the CBGBs ever was imo. The stories from that place are incredible tales of ultimate fucking debauchery.

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Author: McCreature
Subject:
Date: 04/28/13 11:47 am

Final Product:
http://punkrocktimeline.wordpress.com/
_________________
I wish I was an astronaut

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Author: fat matt
Subject:
Date: 04/29/13 10:48 am

McCreature wrote:
Final Product:
http://punkrocktimeline.wordpress.com/


This is very interesting, I think that the visual display adds a lot to the comprehension of certain overlaps across different continents. Doing something like this timeline is very difficult because it excludes a lot of important bands - unless you're doing a totally comprehensive study, it is inevitable that bands would be excluded. At first glance, I was overwhelmed because of the lines all over the place. It was confusing. But I figured it out and it makes sense while seeming to adopt a punk aesthetic in the messy-ness of the computer-based image (DIY approach in the 21st century). I really like it.

As a spin-off, I think it would be interesting to do some work to get a sense of each band as they approached their trade. Whenever I look at the liner notes of the albums of the early bands (i.e., the ones that existed before I was alive), I'm amazed by the similarities of their presentation of their thoughts and worldviews. I think that the digitization of music and album art has made it more accessible in a lot of ways in that bands can do their own songs and album cover in their basement; however, it seems like many are looking at the old bands that broke up yeas ago or have recently reunited for a tour and imitating what they see. Sometimes its satire. Most of the time, it seems like an aesthetic choice to associate with a history - the same one you've outlined - of the variety of sub-genres associated with punk.

One project that I've wanted to undertake since reading Anderson and Jenkin's Dance of Days is a similar storyline of Ottawa's punk history. I've learned about some old bands, such as The Action in the late 1970s and Flag of Truce in the early-mid 1980s, and am familiar with many bands from the late 1990s to 2013. I'd also like to include the stories of the record stores that came and went, how locals handled the proliferation of punk in the early to mid 1990s, and to learn more about venues and promoters who kept touring bands visiting Ottawa. It'd be neat to get this sort of story recorded and put online somewhere accessible and free for everyone to read.

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Author: McCreature
Subject:
Date: 05/24/13 6:04 pm

Thanks Fat Matt! So you would want to organize bands by beliefs and such? It would get really interesting to visualize when other band members oppose those views!

Ottawa punk history should be recorded, especially if we want to fight against our "most boring city" title. If you ever need to visualize some of that data I'd be glad to help in such a worthy project.
_________________
I wish I was an astronaut

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Author: selfinflicted
Subject:
Date: 06/03/13 11:57 am

punk rock history is subjective--it depends who you ask. There's all kinds of punk. I mean how far back do you want to go, rock n' roll was the first rebel music, then surf rock imo. The ramones were trying to be go back to the roots of rock n roll... That's what I consider the first real punk rock band just because their style of downstrokes with poppy but heavy beats and melodic vocals. Every punk band after the ramones sort of copied those elements. minor threat was just a more extreme version of that but they had a big impact on the shape of punk/hardcore. So we can sit here and name bands all day, but really just focus on the sound and where it originates from...that would be the Ramones. The fast punk beat that we all know and love comes from discharge--called the 'dbeat' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-beat

how ska and reggae got in the mix is sort of weird, I think bob marley and that generation of reggae had an effect on the punks in the late 70's. I'd say focus on the roots of the sound, not the bands themselves, that's more relatable to someone who doesn't understand what punk is about.

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Author: estee.tabernac
Subject:
Date: 06/03/13 4:59 pm

fat matt wrote:
One project that I've wanted to undertake since reading Anderson and Jenkin's Dance of Days is a similar storyline of Ottawa's punk history. I've learned about some old bands, such as The Action in the late 1970s and Flag of Truce in the early-mid 1980s, and am familiar with many bands from the late 1990s to 2013. I'd also like to include the stories of the record stores that came and went, how locals handled the proliferation of punk in the early to mid 1990s, and to learn more about venues and promoters who kept touring bands visiting Ottawa. It'd be neat to get this sort of story recorded and put online somewhere accessible and free for everyone to read.


There is a book on the first wave of Canadian punk, which includes a chapter on Ottawa. The author also interviews John "Birdman" Westhaver in the East Cost chapter.

http://www.amazon.ca/Perfect-Youth-Birth-Canadian-Punk/dp/1770410651
_________________
smash your head on the punk rock

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Author: fat matt
Subject:
Date: 06/05/13 5:46 pm

estee.tabernac wrote:
fat matt wrote:
One project that I've wanted to undertake since reading Anderson and Jenkin's Dance of Days is a similar storyline of Ottawa's punk history. I've learned about some old bands, such as The Action in the late 1970s and Flag of Truce in the early-mid 1980s, and am familiar with many bands from the late 1990s to 2013. I'd also like to include the stories of the record stores that came and went, how locals handled the proliferation of punk in the early to mid 1990s, and to learn more about venues and promoters who kept touring bands visiting Ottawa. It'd be neat to get this sort of story recorded and put online somewhere accessible and free for everyone to read.


There is a book on the first wave of Canadian punk, which includes a chapter on Ottawa. The author also interviews John "Birdman" Westhaver in the East Cost chapter.

http://www.amazon.ca/Perfect-Youth-Birth-Canadian-Punk/dp/1770410651


Thanks for showing me this book, I'll definitely get a hold of it and read it. It sounds interesting!

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Author: moesplant
Subject:
Date: 08/07/14 6:32 pm

Sounds interesting!

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