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Subject: Feminism in Ottawa
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Author: FTW
Subject:
Date: 12/01/07 7:45 pm

engallop wrote:
FTW wrote:
Western capitalistic society is at best a total fucking joke and it's that same materialistic outlook on life that keeps you all fighting for a slice of the pie.


this is a real disaster of a sentence.


how is this one? Go fuck yourself!
_________________
"BETTER TO BE DEAD THAN FUCKING RED" COMBAT 84

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Author: lekate
Subject:
Date: 12/02/07 1:14 am

merton fink. wrote:
xpetalsfallenx wrote:
lekate wrote:
wouldn't the gender roles we force upon children affect little boys more than little girls? just because it was socially acceptable for me as a child to follow the boys in the neighbourhood and get all muddy, but I'm sure as hell people would've looked at my brother funny if he got into my dolls and "girly toys"...

Yes and no. Allowing girls to act like boys seems progressive and to a degree it is. But not allowing a boy to act like a girl shows that this progression falls well short of where feminists want it to be. Boy's are not "allowed" to act like girls because, for the boy, that would be taking a lesser role (girls' roles are seen as less valuable than boys' roles). The end result is that while women seem to be allowed to take on (some) male roles, male and female roles are still separated and male roles are valued more highly than female roles; and more specifically, the separation of males and females and the value of the male over the female.


as i see it we could look at it a couple of ways:

1) the masculine indentity/role we assign boys, (and all the qualities, characteristics, ideals, values, etc therein) are the only "true"/"valid" qualities, characteristics, ideals, values etc. that exist for all humans because they embody some noble qualities that transcend the gender divide. Every quality, characteristic, ideal, values we've assigned to girls is, in actuality, an attitude of servitude and basically female identity can be reduced to a slave mentality. Therefore, since boys are in the position of power and femininity is the state of lacking power, girls should strive to rise up and be like boys.

2) the masculine identity/"role" is patriarchal, aggressive, destructive, oppressive, all around "bad", there is nothing virtuous about masculinity therefore we need to effeminize males and make them fall more in line with the feminine identity (seems to me kinda like what the frog queen was suggesting?)

3) masculine/feminine qualities are both good and bad, so ideally we should synthesize both into ONE gender of androgynous humans who reflect the good and bad in both constructs of identity


My nephew, when he was 2-3 years old, was denied pink "dora" socks because his grandfather (who has custody of him with his wife) thought he'd turn out "gay", because of pink "dora" socks. Apparently my nephew was quite upset because he could not understand why he wasn't allowed to have these particular socks (since he loved the "dora" show), opposed to say a another pair.

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Author: Computer_Boy
Subject:
Date: 12/02/07 2:16 am

FTW, I offer you the key to 'monkdom'

And lekate, just because someone doesn't let their infant child wear a bunch of weird shit doesn't mean they hate gays or women or anything like that. I'd say your nephew's granddad is an exception.

If I ever have a child (which I most likely never will!) and it turns out to be a boy, you think I'm gonna let it wear pink dora socks? Guess that means that on some subconscious level I think 'women are inferior to men'. You're free to rationalize it that way if you want, just know that you're wrong.

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Author: xpetalsfallenx
Subject:
Date: 12/02/07 4:09 am

Computer_Boy wrote:

If I ever have a child (which I most likely never will!) and it turns out to be a boy, you think I'm gonna let it wear pink dora socks? Guess that means that on some subconscious level I think 'women are inferior to men'.

It doesn't mean that you think that 'women are inferior to men', it just means that you are following the current gender stereotypes (unless you have other reasons which, as far as I know, you very well could have). And no one can say with absolute certainty that one way is better than the other or that one person's ideas of gender roles (or the argument that there shouldn't be any gender roles) is more "correct" than someone else's. (I mean of course most of us here agree that current gender roles and stereotypes are, in the gentlest word, unequal, but I did bold the word 'absolute' above as a way to introduce some uncertainty.)

And the issue doesn't really come down to allowing a boy to wear pink socks (I would suggest that in a society without (a history of) gender roles a parent not allowing their boy to wear pink socks would not be thought sexist), but it is because there is such a history that feminists find a problem with the situation; it is not the material situation itself, but the beliefs, values, and norms that created the situation and that are being upheld by the act. One reason that feminism is such a hard fight is because it's waged in the realm (for lack of a better word at this moment) of the symbolic.

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Author: Tryptamine
Subject:
Date: 12/03/07 9:04 am

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Author: Tryptamine
Subject:
Date: 12/03/07 9:06 am

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Author: Tryptamine
Subject:
Date: 12/03/07 9:07 am

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Author: sick_city
Subject:
Date: 12/03/07 11:36 pm

funny. that anime character could pass as male or female, as they all look generally the same.

nice try at offending people, though.

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Author: Blood_Axe
Subject:
Date: 12/04/07 8:29 pm


_________________
Planet of pestilence, refuge for the weak. Why do you take pride in being the dirt on the face of a planet which is a dirty rock in a filthy universe? It makes no fucking sense!

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