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Subject: Feminism in Ottawa
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Author: Blood_Axe
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 7:48 pm

FTW wrote:
All women should be married and reproduce. The only reason why all men don't have to get married is because they can become monks otherwise they should get married too and carry out our obligation as human beings which is to populate...the problem is men and women are not at all taught to think beyond themselves and are too selfish to think of anyone else. I'm sorry, but feminism has only made the my, me and mine problem worst. How many so called feminists use guys for sex? How many of them could care less about the rights of men? or children for that fact. (hardly any pro life feminists although they do exist.) Face it you don't want equal rights...you want what everyone else wants (CONTROL)


backed! frogqueen go burn a bra.
_________________
Aaaayyyy

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Author: Mal
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 8:45 pm

where merton_fink wrote...

am highly critical of the attitudes expressed by "Mal" and "The Frog Queen", and likely many others on PunkOttawa, who seem to conceive of feminism as purely a gender-class struggle. "Patriarchal masculinity oppresses us, therefore we must kill our masters and liberate ourselves," they proclaim!

feminism, to them, is just part of this back and forth sex war with men, which I think misses the entire point. by doing so, you just play into the patriarchally defined gender structures and never truly get away from what it is that's oppressing you. Who is to say that gender is based on this rigid, binary configuration of masculine-feminine, male-female?



I really don't know how you extrapolated on what I said to make it into that...

I don't think any of that...

really.. I don't even know how to respond...

maybe I'll just address the first part...

feminist discourse engages not just with the sex/gender constructions, but also with issues of economics, race, ability, sexuality, etc, and how they intersect with one another and impact womyn's lives

patriarchy is oppressive, but patriarchy is a systemic issue, which nullifies your ridiculous statement about killing the "master", because while people are implicated in the system, and can enable it, the purpose is not to blame individuals but to understand hierarchies of power and domination and how this translates into privilege for some and lack of privilege for others... individuals who blame particular people, and do it in the name of feminism, are misguided, I am a feminist, believe that patriarchy has huge implications for womyn's and men's lives (by having to live up to this machismo definition of masculinity, and being labelled as a queer if you don't as just one example), but you merton, presuming you're a man, I'm not going to individually blame you for patriarchy just because you belong to the category of male, I would be wrong to do that

patriarchy as a system of oppression confers privilege onto men, privileges which womyn don't have, but then there are privileges that white womyn have that womyn of colour don't have, which disabled/queer womyn of colour don't have, which womyn in the global south don't have.... therefore feminism (and what I personally believe) deals with issues a hell of a lot more complicated than just issues of gender/class

so again I really don't know how you perceived my comments to be about killing men and about sex wars, that's ridiculous...maybe you were being slightly facetious? hopefully?

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Author: mmmm
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 9:20 pm

Psychofilly wrote:
How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?

...

None, they can't change anything.


lol

well at least not anymore
_________________
big party

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Author: Computer_Boy
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 2:08 am

FTW wrote:
All women should be married and reproduce. The only reason why all men don't have to get married is because they can become monks otherwise they should get married too and carry out our obligation as human beings which is to populate...the problem is men and women are not at all taught to think beyond themselves and are too selfish to think of anyone else. I'm sorry, but feminism has only made the my, me and mine problem worst...


Thats right, gentlemen! It's a simple choice. Either produce at least 4 viable offspring within your lifetime, or move to Tibet and become a monk. I'd say it's pretty obvious no other choices exist in life. You're either a breeder or you're a monk. It's that simple.



Seriously dude, that was pretty funny;p

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Author: the frog queen
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 9:57 am

Mal wrote:
where merton_fink wrote...

am highly critical of the attitudes expressed by "Mal" and "The Frog Queen", and likely many others on PunkOttawa, who seem to conceive of feminism as purely a gender-class struggle. "Patriarchal masculinity oppresses us, therefore we must kill our masters and liberate ourselves," they proclaim!

feminism, to them, is just part of this back and forth sex war with men, which I think misses the entire point. by doing so, you just play into the patriarchally defined gender structures and never truly get away from what it is that's oppressing you. Who is to say that gender is based on this rigid, binary configuration of masculine-feminine, male-female?



I really don't know how you extrapolated on what I said to make it into that...

I don't think any of that...

really.. I don't even know how to respond...

maybe I'll just address the first part...

feminist discourse engages not just with the sex/gender constructions, but also with issues of economics, race, ability, sexuality, etc, and how they intersect with one another and impact womyn's lives

patriarchy is oppressive, but patriarchy is a systemic issue, which nullifies your ridiculous statement about killing the "master", because while people are implicated in the system, and can enable it, the purpose is not to blame individuals but to understand hierarchies of power and domination and how this translates into privilege for some and lack of privilege for others... individuals who blame particular people, and do it in the name of feminism, are misguided, I am a feminist, believe that patriarchy has huge implications for womyn's and men's lives (by having to live up to this machismo definition of masculinity, and being labelled as a queer if you don't as just one example), but you merton, presuming you're a man, I'm not going to individually blame you for patriarchy just because you belong to the category of male, I would be wrong to do that

patriarchy as a system of oppression confers privilege onto men, privileges which womyn don't have, but then there are privileges that white womyn have that womyn of colour don't have, which disabled/queer womyn of colour don't have, which womyn in the global south don't have.... therefore feminism (and what I personally believe) deals with issues a hell of a lot more complicated than just issues of gender/class

so again I really don't know how you perceived my comments to be about killing men and about sex wars, that's ridiculous...maybe you were being slightly facetious? hopefully?


just ditto over here. oh and one other thing : Merton said -
"feminism, to them, is just part of this back and forth sex war with men, which I think misses the entire point."

um... are presuming to tell me how I define feminism.. cause if so.... big bad very wrong thing to do my dear.
_________________
crack don't smoke itself

http://www.deathmarchrecords.blogspot.com

http://www.myspace.com/deathmarchrecords

http://www.myspace.com/psychichotlineband

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Author: the frog queen
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 9:58 am

Blood_Axe wrote:
FTW wrote:
All women should be married and reproduce. The only reason why all men don't have to get married is because they can become monks otherwise they should get married too and carry out our obligation as human beings which is to populate...the problem is men and women are not at all taught to think beyond themselves and are too selfish to think of anyone else. I'm sorry, but feminism has only made the my, me and mine problem worst. How many so called feminists use guys for sex? How many of them could care less about the rights of men? or children for that fact. (hardly any pro life feminists although they do exist.) Face it you don't want equal rights...you want what everyone else wants (CONTROL)


backed! frogqueen go burn a bra.


another stereotype. Thanks!
_________________
crack don't smoke itself

http://www.deathmarchrecords.blogspot.com

http://www.myspace.com/deathmarchrecords

http://www.myspace.com/psychichotlineband

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Author: Obey
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 10:08 am

quadruple posts blow the mosts.
_________________
Witty closing remarks have been replaced by massive head trauma and severe hemorrhaging.

- Nny


Last edited by Obey on 11/27/07 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total.

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Author: Obey
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 10:11 am

triple posts blow harder
_________________
Witty closing remarks have been replaced by massive head trauma and severe hemorrhaging.

- Nny


Last edited by Obey on 11/27/07 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total.

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Author: Obey
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 10:11 am

double posts blow
_________________
Witty closing remarks have been replaced by massive head trauma and severe hemorrhaging.

- Nny


Last edited by Obey on 11/27/07 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total.

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Author: Obey
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 10:13 am


_________________
Witty closing remarks have been replaced by massive head trauma and severe hemorrhaging.

- Nny

[ Reply with quote ]

Author: Blood_Axe
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 10:27 pm

the frog queen wrote:
Blood_Axe wrote:
FTW wrote:
All women should be married and reproduce. The only reason why all men don't have to get married is because they can become monks otherwise they should get married too and carry out our obligation as human beings which is to populate...the problem is men and women are not at all taught to think beyond themselves and are too selfish to think of anyone else. I'm sorry, but feminism has only made the my, me and mine problem worst. How many so called feminists use guys for sex? How many of them could care less about the rights of men? or children for that fact. (hardly any pro life feminists although they do exist.) Face it you don't want equal rights...you want what everyone else wants (CONTROL)


backed! frogqueen go burn a bra.


another stereotype. Thanks!


hey i dont make sterotypes....i see them!
_________________
Aaaayyyy

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Author: xpetalsfallenx
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 11:05 pm

Goat Killer wrote:


I didn't intend to make a blanket statement on the entire movement. However, a great deal of feninism is giving females the right to "choose" what they want to do of their own accord, and a great deal have chosen the domain of slutdom. Sleeping around after a few Smirnoff Ices at the local club is a major part of many lifes.

Not all, but a lot.

I agree with you to a degree on this; so-called sexual liberation has been on many recent feminist agendas and has perhaps opened the door for a lot of "sluts". I think, though, that more of these women are acting sexually promiscuous not because of feminism, but chauvinism and misogyny: they're just playing the roles that we've made for them. Sexual promiscuity among women due to feminism can also to be attributed to male sex roles created by the patriarchy. Guys throughout all time have always been known to be sluts but were never attributed the negative connotations; being a man-slut was good. Some feminism is just fighting for this equality. Perhaps what needs to examined is, if men and women are to be truly equal, what (shared) roles we should all have. In this sense I find feminism to be more of a humanism than strictly a benefit for women. Equality benefits us all and a re-examination of current norms and values could lead in this direction.

Mal wrote:
where merton_fink wrote...

Quote:
am highly critical of the attitudes expressed by "Mal" and "The Frog Queen", and likely many others on PunkOttawa, who seem to conceive of feminism as purely a gender-class struggle. "Patriarchal masculinity oppresses us, therefore we must kill our masters and liberate ourselves," they proclaim!

feminism, to them, is just part of this back and forth sex war with men, which I think misses the entire point. by doing so, you just play into the patriarchally defined gender structures and never truly get away from what it is that's oppressing you. Who is to say that gender is based on this rigid, binary configuration of masculine-feminine, male-female?




I really don't know how you extrapolated on what I said to make it into that...

I don't think any of that...

really.. I don't even know how to respond...

maybe I'll just address the first part...

feminist discourse engages not just with the sex/gender constructions, but also with issues of economics, race, ability, sexuality, etc, and how they intersect with one another and impact womyn's lives

patriarchy is oppressive, but patriarchy is a systemic issue, which nullifies your ridiculous statement about killing the "master", because while people are implicated in the system, and can enable it, the purpose is not to blame individuals but to understand hierarchies of power and domination and how this translates into privilege for some and lack of privilege for others... individuals who blame particular people, and do it in the name of feminism, are misguided, I am a feminist, believe that patriarchy has huge implications for womyn's and men's lives (by having to live up to this machismo definition of masculinity, and being labelled as a queer if you don't as just one example), but you merton, presuming you're a man, I'm not going to individually blame you for patriarchy just because you belong to the category of male, I would be wrong to do that

patriarchy as a system of oppression confers privilege onto men, privileges which womyn don't have, but then there are privileges that white womyn have that womyn of colour don't have, which disabled/queer womyn of colour don't have, which womyn in the global south don't have.... therefore feminism (and what I personally believe) deals with issues a hell of a lot more complicated than just issues of gender/class

so again I really don't know how you perceived my comments to be about killing men and about sex wars, that's ridiculous...maybe you were being slightly facetious? hopefully?

I like your definition/form of feminism. It's the type I labeled above as "humanism", though whether that may be confusing or confused is debatable. I think your emphasis on the patriarchal system and not individuals is very important and is the reason that feminism as an ongoing movement is important. If it was just about some head leaders somewhere feminism would have long ago accomplished its goals. But the perpetrator of the overlying sexism is abstract, a system that we've all been born into and taught not to notice and honestly I have trouble noticing it because I am not a woman. I do not know the prejudices that women do. Of course I notice the blatant sexism in mass culture, but I really can't grasp the ramifications of these stereotypes. Additionally, being of the dominant group of this system (I am also white, (soon-to-be)university educated, and upper-middle class) I benefit from it (often without noticing) and am, consequently in some ways passively sexist.

I sorta got away rambling there for a bit so I'm not quite sure where I was trying to go, but I'd like to turn back to the abstraction of the problem of the patriarchy. There is no concrete head perpetrator that we can cut off. We are all in the system and in order for it to change we have to change (and this goes for racism, classism, and any other institutionalized -isms). So guys, be aware that you are privileged and if you feel you are being treated unfairly (in this case getting more than you deserve) notice it and reject it.

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Author: strike
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 11:14 pm

Blood_Axe wrote:
hey i dont make sterotypes....i see them!



This type of mentality would explain why you're a raging racist.
_________________
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http://pascaleinthearctic.blogspot.com

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Author: FTW
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 11:21 pm

I'd love to answer your questions, but in truth i feel no need to explain myself. Why speak when it falls on deaf ears and when people really can't even try to see my side yet i'm forced to see things from your point of view or god forbid i become an outcast from your uber punk rock society.
_________________
"BETTER TO BE DEAD THAN FUCKING RED" COMBAT 84

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Author: Blood_Axe
Subject:
Date: 11/27/07 11:31 pm

strike wrote:
Blood_Axe wrote:
hey i dont make sterotypes....i see them!



This type of mentality would explain why you're a raging racist.


durrr that post was dripping with sarcasm. way to go.
_________________
Aaaayyyy

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