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Subject: Feminism in Ottawa
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Author: Jim Sharpe
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 2:41 am

wymyn*

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Author: Goat Killer
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 4:47 am

The culmination of the 60s movement; sluts! Yay, sexual liberation and a plethora of sexually transmitted diseases.
_________________
http://www.last.fm/user/Iconochasm

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Author: Mal
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 9:16 am

Goat Killer wrote:
The culmination of the 60s movement; sluts! Yay, sexual liberation and a plethora of sexually transmitted diseases.


how about you just not speak of the feminist movement because your interpretation of the second wave is clearly inaccurate, or maybe misguided, and is heavily insulting (not just to the "feminists" either, but all women, which you're implicating to be sluts)

or better yet, take a women's studies class and learn something

tool

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Author: totalimmortalpk
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 11:05 am

OPIRG Ottawa U has a womens' circle.
There's also the womens ressource center as Mal said, they can point you in the direction of organizations like SACS (Sexual Assault Counselling Service)

Most radical groups in Ottawa have some sort of feminist aspect to them, aka Exile Books, People's Global Action (PGA bloc), etc.
_________________
www.myspace.com/criticalconvictions

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Author: Daniel APC(X)
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 11:54 am

totalimmortalpk wrote:

Most radical groups in Ottawa have some sort of feminist aspect to them, aka Exile Books, People's Global Action (PGA bloc), etc.


I disagree.. although they do have some feminists as members, they have an equal number of anti-feminists.

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Author: Goat Killer
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 12:51 pm

Mal wrote:
Goat Killer wrote:
The culmination of the 60s movement; sluts! Yay, sexual liberation and a plethora of sexually transmitted diseases.


how about you just not speak of the feminist movement because your interpretation of the second wave is clearly inaccurate, or maybe misguided, and is heavily insulting (not just to the "feminists" either, but all women, which you're implicating to be sluts)

or better yet, take a women's studies class and learn something

tool


I didn't intend to make a blanket statement on the entire movement. However, a great deal of feninism is giving females the right to "choose" what they want to do of their own accord, and a great deal have chosen the domain of slutdom. Sleeping around after a few Smirnoff Ices at the local club is a major part of many lifes.

Not all, but a lot.
_________________
http://www.last.fm/user/Iconochasm

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Author: the frog queen
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 2:01 pm

Goat Killer wrote:
Mal wrote:
Goat Killer wrote:
The culmination of the 60s movement; sluts! Yay, sexual liberation and a plethora of sexually transmitted diseases.


how about you just not speak of the feminist movement because your interpretation of the second wave is clearly inaccurate, or maybe misguided, and is heavily insulting (not just to the "feminists" either, but all women, which you're implicating to be sluts)

or better yet, take a women's studies class and learn something

tool


I didn't intend to make a blanket statement on the entire movement. However, a great deal of feninism is giving females the right to "choose" what they want to do of their own accord, and a great deal have chosen the domain of slutdom. Sleeping around after a few Smirnoff Ices at the local club is a major part of many lifes.

Not all, but a lot.


ahahaha. Right, the women can't make choices for themselves so I guess we better make them feel like shit about their bodies and shame them when they express any sexual desire or participate in a sex act. Yeah thats right cause only women spread stds. Better yet, since we can't trust women to make choices about their own sexual experiences then we probably shouldn't trust them to vote... or to choose who they want to marry and most importantly we better make sure all of them GET married.

Dude, do you know anything about the attitude your expressing.. look into it. It's called "I'm scared of female sexuality so I want to supress and control it" -misogyny.
_________________
crack don't smoke itself

http://www.deathmarchrecords.blogspot.com

http://www.myspace.com/deathmarchrecords

http://www.myspace.com/psychichotlineband

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Author: FTW
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 2:55 pm

All women should be married and reproduce. The only reason why all men don't have to get married is because they can become monks otherwise they should get married too and carry out our obligation as human beings which is to populate...the problem is men and women are not at all taught to think beyond themselves and are too selfish to think of anyone else. I'm sorry, but feminism has only made the my, me and mine problem worst. How many so called feminists use guys for sex? How many of them could care less about the rights of men? or children for that fact. (hardly any pro life feminists although they do exist.) Face it you don't want equal rights...you want what everyone else wants (CONTROL)
_________________
"BETTER TO BE DEAD THAN FUCKING RED" COMBAT 84

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Author: the frog queen
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 3:03 pm

FTW wrote:
All women should be married and reproduce. The only reason why all men don't have to get married is because they can become monks otherwise they should get married too and carry out our obligation as human beings which is to populate...the problem is men and women are not at all taught to think beyond themselves and are too selfish to think of anyone else. I'm sorry, but feminism has only made the my, me and mine problem worst. How many so called feminists use guys for sex? How many of them could care less about the rights of men? or children for that fact. (hardly any pro life feminists although they do exist.) Face it you don't want equal rights...you want what everyone else wants (CONTROL)


thats absolutely ridiculous. Your just spewing out the typical response. "selfish feminists" stereotype.


"All women should be married and reproduce. The only reason why all men don't have to get married is because they can become monks otherwise they should get married too and carry out our obligation as human beings which is to populate"

see at first I thought you were joking. but attitudes like this is exactly why feminism needs to exist- to protect women from being forced into marriage, pregnancy and forced out of making their own way in the world. Because sadly many people still look at women and see a walking baby incubator.
_________________
crack don't smoke itself

http://www.deathmarchrecords.blogspot.com

http://www.myspace.com/deathmarchrecords

http://www.myspace.com/psychichotlineband

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Author: Jim Sharpe
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 3:33 pm

here we go! fight!

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Author: merton fink.
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 3:49 pm

the frog queen wrote:
Goat Killer wrote:
Mal wrote:
Goat Killer wrote:
The culmination of the 60s movement; sluts! Yay, sexual liberation and a plethora of sexually transmitted diseases.


how about you just not speak of the feminist movement because your interpretation of the second wave is clearly inaccurate, or maybe misguided, and is heavily insulting (not just to the "feminists" either, but all women, which you're implicating to be sluts)

or better yet, take a women's studies class and learn something

tool


I didn't intend to make a blanket statement on the entire movement. However, a great deal of feninism is giving females the right to "choose" what they want to do of their own accord, and a great deal have chosen the domain of slutdom. Sleeping around after a few Smirnoff Ices at the local club is a major part of many lifes.

Not all, but a lot.


ahahaha. Right, the women can't make choices for themselves so I guess we better make them feel like shit about their bodies and shame them when they express any sexual desire or participate in a sex act. Yeah thats right cause only women spread stds. Better yet, since we can't trust women to make choices about their own sexual experiences then we probably shouldn't trust them to vote... or to choose who they want to marry and most importantly we better make sure all of them GET married.

Dude, do you know anything about the attitude your expressing.. look into it. It's called "I'm scared of female sexuality so I want to supress and control it" -misogyny.


Theres a book written by a feminist (and a female) called "female chauvinist pigs" about 'the rise of raunch culture' amongst females, as a result of, among other things, second-wave feminism and capitalism/consumerism

I will actually back Goat Killer's comments and actually support him 100% on this one.

I am highly critical of the attitudes expressed by "Mal" and "The Frog Queen", and likely many others on PunkOttawa, who seem to conceive of feminism as purely a gender-class struggle. "Patriarchal masculinity oppresses us, therefore we must kill our masters and liberate ourselves," they proclaim!

feminism, to them, is just part of this back and forth sex war with men, which I think misses the entire point. by doing so, you just play into the patriarchally defined gender structures and never truly get away from what it is that's oppressing you. Who is to say that gender is based on this rigid, binary configuration of masculine-feminine, male-female?

While I agree that female's (i use this term only to refer to individuals who possess vaginas and have been designated as such by the patriarchal matrix) have been oppressed by patriarchy, historically and, evidently by FTW's post, today; This has, in my opinion, led many feminists to the mistaken belief that the only path to their salvation is "liberation"

but what is "liberation"?

In my mind, there are 2 kinds of "liberation":

1) Freedom to do whatever you want
2) Freedom from the restrictions of gender

To further reinforce the authority of what I just said (beyond the fact that it was me who said it), I picked that point up from a Margaret Atwood novel

Now, at first glance, you might think that definitions 1 & 2 are basically the same thing, just phrased differently. But, to your surprise, there is actually a subtle and nuanced difference!

Definition #1 implies empowerment - power implies the ability to do things ie: whatever you want. Definition #2 implies simply that gender doesn't exist and that gender should be removed as a determinant of an individuals identity. This moreso would lead into androgony and egalitarianism between the sexes than it would into 'empowerment'. Yet, definition #2 implies that men and women should be held to the same standard, whereas definition #1 implies that since women are empowered, women should be free to establish whatever standards about themselves that they should chose, with complete disregard for any sort of universal ethics that transcend 'gender'.

I don't believe Goat Killer is a misogynist. Judging by his username, he might very well be a goatogynist, but I believe that if you asked him, he would likely have a negative opinion about drunken sailors sauntering into syphillis soddened pleasure dens during shore leave in Korea. Unless he is a hypocrit, I think he generally has a bigger problem with 'slutdom' itself than with 'female sexuality' or the idea that 'females should not be sluts, but its ok for males'.
_________________
HYPERMASCULINE!

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Author: merton fink.
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 4:02 pm

FTW wrote:
All women should be married and reproduce. The only reason why all men don't have to get married is because they can become monks otherwise they should get married too and carry out our obligation as human beings which is to populate...the problem is men and women are not at all taught to think beyond themselves and are too selfish to think of anyone else. I'm sorry, but feminism has only made the my, me and mine problem worst. How many so called feminists use guys for sex? How many of them could care less about the rights of men? or children for that fact. (hardly any pro life feminists although they do exist.) Face it you don't want equal rights...you want what everyone else wants (CONTROL)


you've explained what the role of females is, lets leave females out of this for a second, could you explain to me what your idea of the role of males is?

also, i suppose you think women should be obedient to their husbands? nurturing? what then are the masculine characteristics that men are supposed to display?
_________________
HYPERMASCULINE!

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Author: totalimmortalpk
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 4:25 pm

Daniel APC(X) wrote:
totalimmortalpk wrote:

Most radical groups in Ottawa have some sort of feminist aspect to them, aka Exile Books, People's Global Action (PGA bloc), etc.


I disagree.. although they do have some feminists as members, they have an equal number of anti-feminists.


I put some in that sentence because I am aware of that fact, having organized with a lot of these groups. By principle, they are or should be feminist, but there's obviously still work to go. Could be a good place for him to meet feminists, or feminist supporters though..
_________________
www.myspace.com/criticalconvictions

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Author: Melody
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 4:44 pm

FTW wrote:
All women should be married and reproduce.


No. I am not my uterus.

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Author: lekate
Subject:
Date: 11/26/07 6:50 pm

FTW wrote:
the problem is men and women are not at all taught to think beyond themselves and are too selfish to think of anyone else. I'm sorry, but feminism has only made the my, me and mine problem worst.


I would argue that it's our culture that has made everyone selfish, not feminism. Did you hear about that study they did a few years ago, comparing university students between the early 80s and early 00s, and that those in school in the 00s were more likely to be narcissistic than those in the early 80s. Wasn't one of the reasons for this being pre-school tv and that whole concept of "my children are more special than yours and therefore more special" that parents smothered onto their children. Anyways this is just a thought, I think most people are narcissistic regardless of what era they grew up in, the elderly not so much, but the nicer ones are dying off.

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