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Subject: A Note To People Wishing To Start Bands
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Poll: Should we make a list of people like this to warn against their actions in bands? (To a reasonable degree)
Yes: 
72%72%
 72%  [ 18 ]
No: 
28%28%
 28%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 25

Author: Maxwell Demon
Subject: A Note To People Wishing To Start Bands
Date: 07/19/05 10:34 am

Being on this forum for awhile I've noticed about 75% of the "bands" I join or at least offer to take an interest in are quit falsely advertised.

So I thought I would take this time to write a little something for being thinking about making a thread about; when you start a thread about putting together a band (not just saying that you are a singer/guitarist/drummer looking for a band) you need to be able to actually make a band.

This means having the essentials like a place to practise, available time to practise, some idea of some songs perhaps (or ideas), a few amps to help people who have gigantic ones that they can't always bring places and above else, your own darn equipment. If you are a vocalist, own a mic and something to amplify yourself, if you have a 20 watt guitar amp that you can't be heard over the drums buy or steal (borrow) a bigger one from a friend.

Also there is a type of poster (not someone in specific, moreso in general) who comes on this forum, posts about making a band, gets a few people, puts it off forever, then drops everyone claiming that they are too busy, can't while in school, can't get practise space, can't meet anyone because of pysco parental views (my daddy won't let me hang out with rock bands), or is being held in a detainment camp.

The beside point of this is that you should post and gather people together, wasting your time and theirs, just to drop it all because you are disorganised or you didn't bother to check if you were aloud by your parents/significant others/rommates/landlords/slavemasters to:
a) be in a band
or
b) make lots of noise

Thus check with people before hand to find out whether you can have a band before you start to advertise it for other musicians to join.

Also, ajoined to this last example are the people who did this every month or two. this wasn't just a slip-up or misunderstanding, they do this to keep up practise. This is the poster who posts every single moment they have free to make a band, even though, the week before they claimed to be too busy to start a band (or any of the other excuses above).

These people have the ability to draw a bunch of people in, then put off things until everyone either quits, or they put a new post asking for more people in the band, when you haven't even met them yourself and you are supposedly in this band with them.

Also, when you do finally make a band with these people and you do meet (if ever) they have absolutely no drive it seems. They sit there and expect everything to work and when all their sitting there and staring doesn't work after a few "practises" then they call it quits for a week or two and post looking for the exact same thing in a band. I say that usually when a person draws people together and invites them over for a practise, they should organise a few songs before that which everyone can learn and come together to play. Even if it's just a few simple songs to see if everyone can play their instrument along with the other instruments.

I've been in situations where bands didn't like the syle in which I play guitar, my musical tastes, or that I simple wasn't good enough at guitar at the time. I don't mind that if they take the time to have a band practise and analyse people. I respect them, even if their being twats about the whole thing, over someone who just gives up then starts again every month or two.

Ok, so in a recap if you are planning to post about starting a band go through this checklist before posting:

1. Look around your room. Do you see your need equipment?

2. Get a practise space, don't rely that another person has one. Ask your parents/landlord/roommates about their opinion of having a band where you occupy your essence of life.

3. Check how many times you've posted a "starting a band" thread in the past three months. If it's over 2 you may want to rethink this.

4. Do you know what kind of music you want to make... then why don't you be that specific in your post. Don't try to mislead people, give examples of bands you like, even if that makes you a wannabe or non-original. Everyone has influences.

5. Make sure you can play with a band. Some people cannot sing on key with a guitar, play guitar on time with a drumset or drum along with a guitar (or rather, not get distracted while a guitar is playing) This fine and doesn't make you a bad person, however download a digital drum machine or something. It's frustrating to have the "leader" as someone who can't play along with a band.


If these 5 things are all a check, then go for it and best of luck. If not, rethink your strategy.

On a side-note: I've brought up the idea in the past and got a decent response from people. Do you think we should have a sketch list for people in the Band Forum and the Marketplace (or just the band forum) in which if someone gets a few complaints against them just sketching out without an explanation or excuse, then their name should be put on a sticky or a list on the site on which people can be warned about people who aren't that reliable.

I find that there are many cases of this in the band section, in fact most posts made seem to end up like the above examples, but not as much as in the Marketplace from my experience (however I don't purchase that many things often enough to know). But mainly for the marketplacee it would be for people who either just didn't show up and didn't bother to e-mail you before or at least apologise before they were gonna meet you (for both the seller and the buyer) or for people who have a history of overcharging for things, selling broken things without letting people know, or stabbing them in a back alley and taking their money and/or items. It would partcially be for a bit of safety but mostly for not getting ripped off.

For the band section it would be used to put people up like the examples in this list. It wouldn't be a horrible thing to have your name up, but if you do join a band with these people in it then you won't invest too much trust/time in them and if other offers come up you could take them without feeling as guilty. I'm a reliable person and I usually don't try to join 5 bands at once, so I've turned down offers for other bands, and the other bands ended up being quite unreliable.

If this went through it would only be starting and you could only address and suggest people if they did it after the list has started. I don't want to be a jackass and put people on the list that screwed me over a year ago. They easily could have changed.

Also keep in mind that we wouldn't post every single complaint. Just if we get like complaints from different people a few times or they seem to be posting about the same band over and over again, we'll talk to them, or send them a pm asking them about the repeating posts and if they just continue or seem to be unreliable, then they would be put up with an explanation of what they have been like in the past. Vote and let's see what happens, and I volunteer my time to manage a sticky or even just a continuing thread dealing with this.

Punkottawa is one of the best places to join a band and sell and buy lots of stuff at good prices, it's just sometimes ruined be a few people and I think I can help to try to make it easier and more organised to start a band without having to worry about people sketching out.

(sorry bout the long post, but I wanted to get this across and I'm sorry if any of it didn't make sense, but just ask for clarification if needed)

Thanks!
Matt

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Author: Obey
Subject:
Date: 07/19/05 11:19 am

Let people do what the fuck they want and how they want and with whom they want. Don't like it, walk; lists and e-tattling aren't the solution-trying shit out for yourself and knowing better next time is.
_________________
Witty closing remarks have been replaced by massive head trauma and severe hemorrhaging.

- Nny

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Author: bman101
Subject:
Date: 07/19/05 12:02 pm

I say do it, so we can avoid being fucked over, I wouldnt buy something from some asshole who always sells broken shit or doesn't show. And I would love to avoid joining a band with a bunch of idiots who just wanna say they're inna band and not actually practice.
_________________
Got the URDS? I sure do, URRR! Thats gunna need some Creme de la URR.

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Author: Maxwell Demon
Subject:
Date: 07/19/05 12:16 pm

Obey wrote:
Let people do what the fuck they want and how they want and with whom they want. Don't like it, walk; lists and e-tattling aren't the solution-trying shit out for yourself and knowing better next time is.


I'm just trying to make it so people can save time and not get ripped off. I'm not saying, look at this list, don't trust anyone on it, it's moreso a way for someone who doesn't know a lot of people to be able to come onto this board and be aware that some people do this, and advertise that this isn't how everyone from this site acts.

When I looked for bands on this site that's all I got. I got some good ones, and both bands I am now in came from this site (somewhat for one, I met someone threw joining a band, band broke up, then me and the singer made a new bad much later in time) So good things do come out of it. But people who want to do a serious band, or at least committed one gets pushed away by the many people who instead of offering their abilities, trry to start something that they can't possibly follow threw on.

I'm not nesecarily blaming or punishing these people, it's moreso letting people know that other people do take posting about joining or forming bands seriously, and for those of us who know that it helps to discredit some people in attempts to help people make decisions. If someone is iffy if someone is going to eventually get back to them on a band, they can come to the sketch-list and check if they have put people off in the past so they can make the decision to move ahead and try to either form a abnd on their own or join another.

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Author: Maxwell Demon
Subject:
Date: 07/19/05 12:23 pm

bman101 wrote:
I say do it, so we can avoid being fucked over, I wouldnt buy something from some asshole who always sells broken shit or doesn't show. And I would love to avoid joining a band with a bunch of idiots who just wanna say they're inna band and not actually practice.


I'm glad people feel the same!

Does anyone know who has admin over the forums who could make a sticky for this or some sort of page for this? (I'm pretty sure a sticky would be enough)

The plan would be just make one post explaining all the rules and regulations of the whole thing and how to report people, how long the band-posting jihad lasts and how you can apply to get your name off the list, which I would want to be decently easy enough so anybody who wants to make a band for genuine reasons and just screwed up a few times could get off the list. I don't really wanna condemn people from forming bands if they lost their job and had to move into a small apartment and sell their drums, if you know what I mean.

A second post could be used to list the people and the reasons why they put them on the list. The topic could either be locked so that only the person running it could alter the rules and regulations and the list or it could be open so people could comment as well. Doesn't really make much of a difference in my eyes.

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Author: mean_dorris
Subject:
Date: 07/19/05 7:55 pm

i agree with this post, dare i say, because i most certainly did not read the whole thing.
but i have answered a couple of band-forming posts only to find nothing becoming of them.
waste of time.

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Author: willwork4food
Subject:
Date: 07/20/05 3:17 am

yeh, i think it'd be a sweet idea.. kinda like the user rating system on ebay... its a harmless way. and its not like you have to live and die by the list, ya know
_________________
[bleep]

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Author: snowbordin
Subject:
Date: 07/20/05 9:23 am

i actually didnt take in one word of what u said... reading is a HUGE waste of time, we dont need a huge president's speech man... MAXWELL DEMON for 2006... stop bein dramatic and let ppl do as they chose...

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Author: Maxwell Demon
Subject:
Date: 07/20/05 1:04 pm

willwork4food wrote:
yeh, i think it'd be a sweet idea.. kinda like the user rating system on ebay... its a harmless way. and its not like you have to live and die by the list, ya know


That's pretty much it.

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Author: Maxwell Demon
Subject:
Date: 07/20/05 1:10 pm

snowbordin wrote:
i actually didnt take in one word of what u said... reading is a HUGE waste of time, we dont need a huge president's speech man... MAXWELL DEMON for 2006... stop bein dramatic and let ppl do as they chose...


Hm, maybe you missed the point because you can't read. If you cared enough for me to *not* do this, you would actually learn to read things more than 5 sentences long. I wrote it out long so that everyone would understand if they needed to. If someone doesn't want to read it then that's fine, ask me a question even if it's in the above part. I think it's good to be clear about what you are doing and whyh you are doing it and in the end more things will come of it.

See I'm not just about the whole thing with people who don't agree with me are pricks, however you didn't get the point at all. I'm letting people do whatever they want.

If anything, between the two of us, you actually limit people's abilities to make up an opinion on a few users. This list isn't like "ban these people" it's more like letting others know what people are like if they just joined the site or don't come to it everyday.

Anyone who comes here often can tell that "oh this person jsut posted two weeks ago, ,got responses and now is back to the same exact thing... must not be that reliable" but not everyone is gonna know that obviously.

So just calm down and don't make fun of people who can read and write. It's demeaning to you and the site.

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Author: deadlycruelty
Subject:
Date: 07/20/05 7:13 pm

i think its a great idea. go for it!

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Author: punkdrunklove
Subject:
Date: 07/20/05 10:47 pm

The funny thing is I think Maxwell deamon would be on that list. I've seen lots of posts where you say you'll join a band. You've even done it for one of mine. Anyways it's really not necessary because people know who to trust and who not to trust. Word gets around. For example, everyone knows that Endless and Axemanace are twats, we don't need to have a special page that says they are. People just know they are. Anyways bottom line is I think you wasted a good 2 hours writing that shit and making no point.
_________________
Sleeping is for the weak and overweight

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Author: AxeManAce
Subject:
Date: 07/20/05 11:01 pm

punkdrunklove wrote:
The funny thing is I think Maxwell deamon would be on that list. I've seen lots of posts where you say you'll join a band. You've even done it for one of mine. Anyways it's really not necessary because people know who to trust and who not to trust. Word gets around. For example, everyone knows that Endless and Axemanace are twats, we don't need to have a special page that says they are. People just know they are. Anyways bottom line is I think you wasted a good 2 hours writing that shit and making no point.


excuse me? i have a band now, takes time to put one together you know, i cant just exept anny one who says "hey, i can sing". but the band is finnaly put together so stfu. and i also sold a bass in marketplace, and the reason why it took me so long is because like 5 people said theyd buy it and never show up, so please explain to me how i am a twat?
_________________
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last.
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll.

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Author: Maxwell Demon
Subject:
Date: 07/20/05 11:05 pm

punkdrunklove wrote:
The funny thing is I think Maxwell deamon would be on that list. I've seen lots of posts where you say you'll join a band. You've even done it for one of mine. Anyways it's really not necessary because people know who to trust and who not to trust. Word gets around. For example, everyone knows that Endless and Axemanace are twats, we don't need to have a special page that says they are. People just know they are. Anyways bottom line is I think you wasted a good 2 hours writing that shit and making no point.


Whenever I say I'll try out a band I give out my e-mail address and wait for a response or PM. You did neither.

Also, I don't see how this is two hours. And again I said that for people just posting on the site not very regularily it would be a great help.

Endless says some stupid things sometimes, however I don't think he's actually tried to get a band together then just ignored them (at least from my knowledge, and I know the guy) and axemanace posted about making a band, then made one. I don't see how this is a problem?

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Author: AxeManAce
Subject:
Date: 07/20/05 11:07 pm

[quote="Maxwell Demon
Anyone who comes here often can tell that "oh this person jsut posted two weeks ago, ,got responses and now is back to the same exact thing... must not be that reliable" but not everyone is gonna know that obviously.
[/quote]

how do you know the people who were supposed to buy it didnt get the money, or changed their mind in two weeks, it took me like a month to sell my bass, but i sold it, it took me so long because of these people, i showed up everytime, but they always "didnt have the money" "had an emergency at work" "changed their mind" . its not always the person who makes the thread's fault.
_________________
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last.
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll.

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